IMPORTANT, READ NOW

Alright, I'm gonna try to do this without offending or upsetting people, but if you're upset by this anyway, then you're probably one the ones I'm actually directing this at. Feel free to send me /w's telling me how horrible and/or how stupid I am. I'm also going to separate this into segments because there have multiple offenders and multiple offenses.

Level 80 Dungeons. They aren't a heroic. Infact, they don't even require you be level 80 to do. At the very least, you ~should~ be level 78 before attempting them (speaking from experience here), but other than that, they are NOT that big of a problem. Trying to put down a player who is attempting them below level 80 WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. As long as they have the gear to back up the attempt, they should be allowed to try, not ridiculed for thinking they can do something so hard.

Heroics. They aren't the only kind of instance that people can run, and quite frankly, it would help if some certain people in the guild would actually help others in a normal instance once in a while. Not everyone is 80, and therefore not everyone can run heroics. If you're too good to step into a normal instance when asked, please feel free to get the fuck out now. Yes, heroics get you badges for gear, but if you can't run them, you can't get them. Quit being part of that problem and fix it.

Cliques. It has come to my attention that, once again, we are forming cliques within the guild in order to do heroics and even normal instances. I actually don't have a problem with this, per se. However, now, like in the past, they seem to be heading along the path of exclusion if you aren't already doing them with that group. I understand the reasoning behind doing these things as a group is too help each other and the guild get geared for raiding and harder heroics, but it's not working out that way. It is, instead, gearing up the same 5 people every time and not advancing the guild as a whole. This needs to stop. When people in the guild are being forced to respec in order to be of any use to the few people who aren't in a clique of some kind, then something has gone HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY WRONG. What makes this even worse is that, becuase of the cliques, even IF they respec there is still no guarantee that they will be taken into an instance, because they aren't proven to be effective in whatever they happened to have respeced to. This is why some of the people who have left in recent times have over. This also needs to end.

Superiority and random ass-hat-ery. You are not better than some one just because your 80. You are also not better because you have been doing heroics since the week after launch. Quit harrasing people to rush to level 80. Its not cool, its not funny, it makes you look like an asshole, fuck off dickweed(/s). If I continue to see this, you will recieve a warning, a demotion, and a boot in that order. If you are booted over this, you may or may not be allowed entry back in the guild at a later date. Joking around is one thing, but its gone far enough. It hasn't been funny for almost a month, quit it.

Quote :

Cliques. It has come to my attention that, once again, we are forming cliques within the guild in order to do heroics and even normal instances. I actually don't have a problem with this, per se. However, now, like in the past, they seem to be heading along the path of exclusion if you aren't already doing them with that group. I understand the reasoning behind doing these things as a group is too help each other and the guild get geared for raiding and harder heroics, but it's not working out that way. It is, instead, gearing up the same 5 people every time and not advancing the guild as a whole. This needs to stop. When people in the guild are being forced to respec in order to be of any use to the few people who aren't in a clique of some kind, then something has gone HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY WRONG. What makes this even worse is that, becuase of the cliques, even IF they respec there is still no guarantee that they will be taken into an instance, because they aren't proven to be effective in whatever they happened to have respeced to. This is why some of the people who have left in recent times have over. This also needs to end.

I've seen a lot of great guilds end up failing because of this. If anyone remembers the guild Amunra, they were on the top 5 list for quite a while but ended up making two Cliques and it was ending up very hard to find a group to raid in the guild and they ended up falling apart thanks to it. I don't want to see EGS end up the same way and I fully agree with Zero on this. I haven't been on lately due to computer hardware and software issues that should be fixed shortly, I know for one that I would like to be able to raid with you all and do instances once I hit a higher lvl, i'm only lvl 74 i think with my highest character and the ppl i group with to lvl are complaining about having to hit lvl 80 as fast as possible because we wont be able to raid at all.

I totally agree Zero, things are going WAY out of hand, Me and Smolkra are trying to start forming more heroics within the guild, and as of today, I want to do a strict regular instance run, where I will heal on Zulaj and Smolkra tanks while we take 3 DPS in the guild through ALL the dungeons and get them geared so we can do heroics, then we start to raid.

Thanks Zero for posting this.

*holds fingers apart just a bit* This close to packing bags over this RIGHT HERE.

Thank you for posting this, Zero.

Let's see if it helps.

All I can say is here, here. (Clapping heard in the background) A bit of renewed hope in this. I can honestly say that at least someone has it right.

However, it goes beyond just cliques and instances. There is no patience at all by those that are forming things up or even asking about runs. Perfect example is over the last 2 weeks or so since I hit 80 and actually felt I could do heroics. I have waited and asked, waited and asked and nothing. Then a few times I have gotten an invite. Wow. I am all excited. My first heroic. Then WHAM it was filled before I could switch characters or log into the server. What is that? If you say "Yes, come along." It won't hurt you to wait 5 minutes for me to park my alt and switch characters or log into the server because Tart says I was invited to go and wasn't even logged in yet. If you can't wait the 3 minutes it takes for me to start WOW, then don't F'in invite me. This has happened twice, once when I was going to change characters and once when Tart informed me they were doing an heroic and said I could go with them. The other times that irked me was getting invited, the group started to form up and then a couple of them got invited to 'bigger' raids so left us high and dry. What the hell is that?

And that is just my two cents worth, take it or leave it.

That which does not kill us, only postpones the inevitable...

personally, i've been watching for some time and yea, we've lost people for no good reason because people want to be elitist pricks and exclude people. i myself have been excluded and i'm also the person zero is referring to when it comes to respeccing.


i went resto for a night, ran an instance. what happened during that instance almost made me want to quit WoW entirely and has obviously put me off healing for some time.


yes we have a lack of healers and whatnot but NO-ONE should ever have to respec if they don't want to. telling them it's their only option if they ever want to group again is not cool. having pressure put on you creates un-needed stress and this is a game, it's supposed to be fun, being pressured while playing a game is more then likely going to make it hell for a person and make them want to quit/end rant


but basicly i think we need to cut the crap, we all want the same thing so we should all work together. if you wanna form a "clique" thats fine just dont fuck it up for the rest of us. if you insist on running with JUST that same group, i'm sorry but then this probably isn't the right guild for you.


last timne i checked EGS was supposed to be a casual fun guild, not a guild full of uptight snobs with a pretty highschool attitiude when it comes to grouping (i.e only the cool kids can come, you're not cool so bugger off)


i really do like this guild, you've been good to me but i think it's time we all took a good look at ourselves, be more observant to our surroundings and work as a team and have a good time ffs.

Thank you Zero.

Running heroics is a great way to get geared for raiding, but you can't raid with a 5-man group. The more people we can help get into heroics the easier it will be to get groups. On that note, I am now able to make some of the epic leatherworking recipes, I have the hunter stuff now but If anyone can provide me a frozen orb, and the 3 arctic furs for the recipe, I'll help come up with the other materials to get the armor made. There's great stuff for Shamans druids hunters and rogues.

You may see me LFG for heriocs a lot, but If you want to do a regular lvl 80 and need some DPS don't hesitate to shoot me an invite.

Heroics. They aren't the only kind of instance that people can run, and quite frankly, it would help if some certain people in the guild would actually help others in a normal instance once in a while. Not everyone is 80, and therefore not everyone can run heroics. If you're too good to step into a normal instance when asked, please feel free to get the fuck out now. Yes, heroics get you badges for gear, but if you can't run them, you can't get them. Quit being part of that problem and fix it.

- I personally take offence to this particular statement, as I was on the night this became an issue. As far as I was aware this is a casual guild right? I am in no way obligated to waste my time and gold running instance that have no benefit for me. I had to gear myself to go to heroics, and I expect anyone else playing to do the same. Once you are ready for heroics hey thats Awesome, ill run anything you want because its not just me sacraficing my time for nothing. But dont try and tell me im required or obligated to help someone, its My gaming experience and my time, I will do whatever I want with it.

Cliques. It has come to my attention that, once again, we are forming cliques within the guild in order to do heroics and even normal instances. I actually don't have a problem with this, per se. However, now, like in the past, they seem to be heading along the path of exclusion if you aren't already doing them with that group. I understand the reasoning behind doing these things as a group is too help each other and the guild get geared for raiding and harder heroics, but it's not working out that way. It is, instead, gearing up the same 5 people every time and not advancing the guild as a whole. This needs to stop. When people in the guild are being forced to respec in order to be of any use to the few people who aren't in a clique of some kind, then something has gone HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY WRONG. What makes this even worse is that, becuase of the cliques, even IF they respec there is still no guarantee that they will be taken into an instance, because they aren't proven to be effective in whatever they happened to have respeced to. This is why some of the people who have left in recent times have over. This also needs to end.

- You say Cliques, I see it as people I am comfortable with. I want to know when I join a group that the tank is solid and reliable, I want to know the healer is solid and reliable, and I want to group with my friends. There are serveral people that fit into this requirement. I am confident in Tart and Craddock as healers. I have run several heroics with each and I trust their abilties. I trust Burntmane, Darkloth, Vainel, Mayamito, and Malica as tanks. Again many many instance runs have shown me I can trust in their abilties and be successful. As far as DPS, I know Rynja IRL and trust his DPS, I group with Dieu all the time I also know and trust his dps, and im sure there are many more DPS that Im comfortable with but names are just not coming to mind. This experince is a byproduct of the times I play and who is available. If given the choice in putting together a group between people I know we will be successful with and people im not so sure about, personally thats a simple decision. Its not that I will never group with them, but given the choice between a Group I know can do this, and one with an unknown factor, I will chose the group I know. Another part of this, is Both Maya and Rynja being RL friends means I am going to want to group with them. And because i know maya doesnt like being a tank, that means were 3 dps. All we need in our group is a healer and a tank. You may hold this against me, say im an elitist prick but, i do what i do for my own ejoyment. As far as forcing respect I dont like that, if you feel something is missing from the guild roll the character you damn self and level it. I have been part of convincing a certain druid to respec from feral to resto but, I wouldnt expect them to keep the spec if they didnt enjoy it, but once respeced I felt like it was my responsibility to help gear them in heroics.


Superiority and random ass-hat-ery. You are not better than some one just because your 80. You are also not better because you have been doing heroics since the week after launch. Quit harrasing people to rush to level 80. Its not cool, its not funny, it makes you look like an asshole, fuck off dickweed(/s). If I continue to see this, you will recieve a warning, a demotion, and a boot in that order. If you are booted over this, you may or may not be allowed entry back in the guild at a later date. Joking around is one thing, but its gone far enough. It hasn't been funny for almost a month, quit it.

- I havent really seen any of this lately. The couple of times I have seen it, it was a joke, or in response to someone saying they want to raid or run heroics when they are level 40 or something silly.

This may be a casual guild, but the point of a guild isn't to loaf and be a dick, it's to help the others out and pretty much all drive towards the same goal. Amirite? I stopped playing all together because, (excluding the fact that I work 60 hours a week), I wasn't getting help, I couldn't run with the rest of my guildies, and I was getting fed up with the lack of common decency in the guild.

If you don't wanna help the others because it has no benefit for you, then I have to say that's kinda assholish.

azael wrote:

- I personally take offence to this particular statement, as I was on the night this became an issue. As far as I was aware this is a casual guild right? I am in no way obligated to waste my time and gold running instance that have no benefit for me. I had to gear myself to go to heroics, and I expect anyone else playing to do the same. Once you are ready for heroics hey thats Awesome, ill run anything you want because its not just me sacraficing my time for nothing. But dont try and tell me im required or obligated to help someone, its My gaming experience and my time, I will do whatever I want with it.

You didn't have ANY sort of help getting geared for heroics? I find that hard to believe. Yes, this is a casual guild, no, you aren't 'required' or 'obligated' to do any damn thing. But i'm gonna quote this for emphasis and leave it at that.

zero wrote:

If you're too good to step into a normal instance when asked, please feel free to get the fuck out now.

azael wrote:

- You say Cliques, I see it as people I am comfortable with. I want to know when I join a group that the tank is solid and reliable, I want to know the healer is solid and reliable, and I want to group with my friends. There are serveral people that fit into this requirement. I am confident in Tart and Craddock as healers. I have run several heroics with each and I trust their abilties. I trust Burntmane, Darkloth, Vainel, Mayamito, and Malica as tanks. Again many many instance runs have shown me I can trust in their abilties and be successful. As far as DPS, I know Rynja IRL and trust his DPS, I group with Dieu all the time I also know and trust his dps, and im sure there are many more DPS that Im comfortable with but names are just not coming to mind. This experince is a byproduct of the times I play and who is available. If given the choice in putting together a group between people I know we will be successful with and people im not so sure about, personally thats a simple decision. Its not that I will never group with them, but given the choice between a Group I know can do this, and one with an unknown factor, I will chose the group I know. Another part of this, is Both Maya and Rynja being RL friends means I am going to want to group with them. And because i know maya doesnt like being a tank, that means were 3 dps. All we need in our group is a healer and a tank. You may hold this against me, say im an elitist prick but, i do what i do for my own ejoyment. As far as forcing respect I dont like that, if you feel something is missing from the guild roll the character you damn self and level it. I have been part of convincing a certain druid to respec from feral to resto but, I wouldnt expect them to keep the spec if they didnt enjoy it, but once respeced I felt like it was my responsibility to help gear them in heroics.

You're obviously just skimming through what i said, so let me say it again.

zero wrote:

I actually don't have a problem with (cliques), per se. However, now, like in the past, they seem to be heading along the path of exclusion if you aren't already doing them with that group. I understand the reasoning behind doing these things as a group is too help each other and the guild get geared for raiding and harder heroics, but it's not working out that way. It is, instead, gearing up the same 5 people every time and not advancing the guild as a whole

Do you not see the problem between what you just posted and what's happening? I do. They're one and the same. You're grouping with the same small group of people to the exclusion of the rest of the guild, and in doing so, you AREN'T helping the guild get better as a whole, you're only helping people who already have the gear to move forward.

zero wrote:

When people in the guild are being forced to respec in order to be of any use to the few people who aren't in a clique of some kind, then something has gone HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY WRONG. What makes this even worse is that, becuase of the cliques, even IF they respec there is still no guarantee that they will be taken into an instance, because they aren't proven to be effective in whatever they happened to have respeced to.

This was me saying that forcing someone to respec is bad, how did YOU miss that when EVERYONE ELSE who posted here did not?

azael wrote:

- I havent really seen any of this lately. The couple of times I have seen it, it was a joke, or in response to someone saying they want to raid or run heroics when they are level 40 or something silly.

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Generally those level 40 toons are alts of people who have higher level characters. a lot of people have gone from leveling one toon to another as a sort of break, but that's not the point. It's gone from rushing Eeden and Mooface, to rushing Shamington, to rushing Me and Revohm. It gets done to motivate, but it makes some people actually slow down instead. It gets done as a joke, but quite frankly, and i say this again...

zero wrote:

Joking around is one thing, but its gone far enough. It hasn't been funny for almost a month, quit it.

zero wrote:

Its not cool, its not funny, it makes you look like an asshole, fuck off dickweed(/s).

Azael, i didnt expect you to help me at all. i didnt even ask for it. the way you WERE asked i dont blame you for being pissy. but there are still "cliques" whether you see them or not, i'm ghuessing you dont because you are in one. so are alot of people, they just dont see the problem because they're the ones getting all the runs and gear while the rest of us sit here and play with our wangs like idiots or are forced to FARM 24-7

You know what...

It's not a clique with some of us. It's bullshit like... like... THIS.

https://2img.net/h/i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/issame/llianna.jpg

Being treated like SHIT every time we turn around. The story? Failing at a H VH mostly due to lag (by the time I see they've moved, they're clear across the room). An unprovoked page by Llianna (whom I have not so much as remembered the name of since she'd left the guild, might I add).

And I get a shrug in return from Smolkra over it. I understand he doesn't own his woman, but at least a 'Well, that probably wasn't very nice' would have been better than being ignored.

How about Draconesis getting the shaft several times when he'd dropped everything when he was given the verbal ok to join a Heroic?

How about how I've dumped everything I was working on when people have asked me to bend over backwards.. that I won't get the same in return? Or the times when I asked them to give me 4 minutes to finish something I was working on, pop back to Tart and get the, ".. Oh, we got someone else." .. because it's too hard to let me know before I log?

This isn't exactly clinging to a clique in our cases.

Some of us are wary to climb out of our protective shells around those we know any more. (And you got to keep in mind that Vainel, Burntmane Draconesis and I have known each other for more than 7 years.) I can to a POINT why Az only will play with those he knows. And I can see why some people have left.

But I also know that it CAN be cleaned up. Would be a shame to see the place turn into some sort of pixelated Lord of the Flies.

ugh Sparkle i didnt know. i really didnt know. *cry*


and i only do say it's a clique because i get treated the same way. just know i'd never say that about a person unless it's Gradius or they really are that ASSTERRIBLE.


i know for a fact you don't.

Well, needless to say, I am pissed. What the hell was that? Lags and a death because the boss wasn't understood. Then, everyone agrees to drop the instance because they were all getting wiped. It wasn't as if Tart said screw you guys, I can't handle this and left without warning. Everyone agreed and left the group and she gets treated like that??? If we have to worry about being rebuked from other guilds because we do something that was perfectly agreed on, fuck it, it ain't worth it. And not even so much as "That was crappy, I'm sorry." From Smolkra. That is not only fucked up and rude as hell, it is plain disrespectful. Maybe his woman should grow the hell up, get all the facts first, and then think really hard before casting aspersions at anyone else.

As for the rest of this post, I am being respectful of my other half and her wishes and editing it completely out. Perhaps once I am not as livid, I will revise the post and finish the rant. However, as nicely as possible, I will no longer be a part of this kind of group and until everyone can get on the same page, I will no longer participate in this guild.

If me jokingly saying "Hey Azael, you're gonna help Mooface do HoL with us" is supposed to be a problem, I don't see it. Anyone willing to help out would have said yes. I don't see it as anything other than an excuse for not wanting to help in the first place.

I agree with everything Zero has said. I bugged him to get to 80 a couple times and now I bug him to do instances, but there's a difference between telling someone to get better and saying "Hey, let's run a normal instance to get you geared for heroics" like what I try to do. The point of a guild is to be social and work with the entire guild. If you aren't willing to run things with people you don't know then you're going to have the same circle of friends forever, and then being in a guild is pointless, because you already have one friends list.

Well it doesnt come across as jokingly when you attempt to guilt trip me into going. If I sign on and want to work on something for me, thats my decision. Its my monthly subscriptions, its my free time, ill spend it how ever the bloody hell i want. Im in the guild for the social aspects of it. If i just want to hop on and shoot the shit with some cool people thats what ill do. If i feel the burning need to get 34 badges in a day, im not gonna waste my time going to do something that isnt that goal. If im signed on cause im bored and i have nothing to do, then sure ill go do a run that is "helpful to the guild" but doesnt benifit me in any way. Sure if you want to say im an asshole thats cool whatever, but i dont send tell to guildies or ex guildies and bitch about their abilities. If you dont have anything constructive to say go fuck yourself. Ive been in a couple of the groups tart mentioned, where she was on sparkle and we needed a healer and as soon as she logs some other ass invites someone else. I felt horrible about that cause that just plain sucks.

- Zero - I avoid grouping with you because i have heard nightmare stories about instance runs with you. Not your fault as a tank per say but your systems lag. And to be perfectly honest. I dont have 40g and 3 hours to throw away on an instance run. Its not a reflection on you as a tank or a person.

At this point, if you want to throw me out of the guild over this, so be it. I agree with tart that I would like to see this worked out but I will not volunteer myself to the slaughter so i can die a martyr.

It isn't a guilt trip to say that your presence in a run would help out people who need gear. That's the truth. If that makes you feel guilty then maybe you should think about actually helping. What you do with your time is up to you completely, but so far I haven't heard of you running a normal instance or offering to help out anybody who asks for it in the guild channel. So far it has seemed like you haven't been signed on with nothing better to do much at all.

So yeah, you can do what you want, but if what you want has nothing to do with the guild, what's the point of being in it? I'm not saying this because I want you or anybody else who feels like this might apply to them to leave. I would rather that everybody stay in the guild and work on making it stronger.

As for Zero, I think he's a pretty good tank, considering his shitty computer. Generally he holds aggro pretty well and if anybody wipes the group it will be someone other than him, even though there is the occasional lag spike that causes trouble.

A very similar situation to this happened in my last guild. It eventually grew into them becoming a raiding guild, and myself and others leaving. From what I see, EGS is heading down the same road. We are being asked to gear up our other members and to save raid IDs for the guild.

I join guilds for the social aspect. When I came to EGS, I first talked to Eeden and some others about what I was looking for, and I already knew a few of the people here, and was assured I'd be welcome. I had no aspirations of being able to raid or even really run anything with regularity. I level and gear with the intention of PvPing. I've essentially completed what I ever hoped to see of WotLK PvE and then some. I rushed through it so I could get going right at the start of season 5. I played BC the same way. Pre-BC, I never even bothered hitting 60 until soon before the expansion because I could PvP just fine in the late 50s, and I wasn't going to raid for the better gear anyway.

When I ask the guild to see if anyone wants to run something, I am actually looking for people that want to run it. I joke around with the people I am more comfortable with, but I am fine if they just say no. In fact, I don't want you guys to run something with me if you don't want to. I can always move on to my friends list or a global channel to look for people. I act accordingly. If I don't want to do something, I'll say that I don't want to. I don't care much for PvE, and will rarely care to run much unless I feel a need for some reason. In addition, WotLK has made it to where my PvP spec can't even hold up it's DPS in 5-man dungeons. Until the 3.0.8 patch, I likely won't want to run much at all because I don't want to respec for one run when there isn't anything I am trying to get from it. 100g to spec fire, run something to help someone else gear up, and the spec back to arcane so I can do arenas isn't cost affective. DPS is easy to find, and it's really easy to find someone with more DPS than a heroic geared arcane mage. A quest geared dinged-80-today fire mage is more DPS...

Filling groups after asking someone else is another thing that was an issue in my previous guild. I was once chewed out for asking someone if they wanted to run something, only to have the group leader fill the spot with someone else. Since I had no control over what the leader did, I just decided to stop asking the guild to fill spots in pugs. I guess I'll do the same here since it seems most of you would rather never have the chance than possibly miss out because of something that can't be helped.

As far as cliques go, I don't see any problem with people wanting to run things with those they are friends with. Especially if they are running something that is more difficult than the average dungeon.

As far as trying to help others gear up goes, why can't they run with the other people who still need to gear up? Doesn't it make more sense to gear up 5 people at a time, rather than just a couple while others in the group don't need or want anything out of the run? Maybe that's a novel idea, but I promise it works, that's how I got the PvE gear I have. I already ran all the non-heroics, and I ran them with other people that needed them. I also managed to do it when the population of level 80's was *far* lower than it is now. It's a win-win scenario when everyone in your group needs something out of an instance.

As far as telling people how to spec goes, it generally shouldn't be done, but there are limits. Some specs don't work as well as others, and some are downright abysmal. Everyone is free to be whatever they want to be, but they should NOT expect anyone else to put up with a bad spec just because it's fun. It costs everyone else time and gold if someone in the group can't pull their weight. This is partly why I haven't been running much lately. I know that the specs I've been (pvp arcane and grinding frost) can't pull their fair share of DPS in dungeons, so I don't run them often. It is also true that any class that can tank or heal would get more runs if they talent for one of those roles. Uldaman, and EGS, has a ton of DPS. If you choose to be one of those, you are giving up a lot of chances to get into groups. That's just how it works, and it's not wrong for someone to tell you that. It is wrong for them to order you to respec, but it's not wrong for them to tell you they don't need you if you don't respec.

As far as raid IDs go, the first and old time I saved mine for the guild, I got burned. The only thing I really care to run is Archavon, and that's because I only care much about PvP. People gave me all kinds of excuses for why we didn't do the run, but it came down to people not caring. Out of the 10 people that said they could make it, only 1 had a valid excuse, and it is very easy to pug in one tank for 10 man archavon. We could have easily filled the rest of the spots of people that just skipped out, too, but a "better" opportunity opened up. The rest of the people that told me they would run with me, the people I saved my raid ID for, decided they'd get more and better gear if they ran 25 man OS with FoF, and left me trying to fill 9 slots so my raid ID wasn't wasted. To make matters worse, this was before things were patched up with FoF, and our members were treated poorly on the run and blamed for wipes.

After reading this thread, I'm not really sure I belong in EGS, but I don't intend to leave until I can see more clearly where things are heading.

holy crap Isra wall of text there, but i have to say i agree with you entirely. i tend not to type things out much because i'm simply not good at it.



but seriously last time i checked EGS wasn't a hardcore raiding guild but there are some members who appear to be pushing for us to be this way. honestly i doubt it will ever happen. i know it's not my position to say this but if you want a hardcore raiding guild you should just spare yourself the trouble in trying to change a guild and go elsewhere.

and respeccing is a pain in the ass, which is why i never do it. people can tell me to go resto all they want but it's not damn well going to happen until dual speccing comes out and it's not a big hassle anymore.


i'm only getting "geared" now because it's gear i actually want and yes someday i would like to run naxx, but again not really in it for the ZOMG phat loots and bragging rights. if i ever raid again it's because it USED to be fun... back in burning crusade.


but now people are making it a goddamn chore to get geared because holy crap we must fucking raid RIGHT NOW! people are forced to rush lvling and get bitched out if they aren't lvl 80 yet or dont have the best gear in the whole damn game (to date).



people are being ignored when they want groups for this too, but those doing all the complaining about raiding are too busy "raiding" with other guilds. maybe (not wanting more people to leave just stating my opinion) they should just JOIN THOSE OTHER DAMN GUILDS!


and before going onto a big rant about people saying 'we need new members, we need moar healers NAO!' i'm saying it's not a very good fucking idea. we have to sort out the drama and bullshit with the members we do have and try to stop people from leaving. we need to get rid of all the bad eggs and keep the good ones. if we bring in new people and all they see is people leavign and fighting all the time they'll leave ASAP because they'll see the guild has problems and won't want top be dragged into them.


THEY'LL ALSO MORE THEN LIKELY TELL OTHER PEOPLE TO AVOID THE GUILD AS WELL.

dont jump down my throat and say i dont know what i'm talking about, i actually ran a guild and yes, my guild failed because of what i just said, people were joinging and seeing drama and problems and then leaving.



but then again what would i know. i'm not an educated person just some dumb bitch who likes to run her mouth apparently. but wtf people we need to fix these problems we have, learn to get along AND HAVE FUN! this is a GAME after all and GAMES are SUPPOSED to be FUN! then we can focus on trying to bring in the more people we supposedly need to be a big raiding guild like all the big boys (which i think is bullshit anyway)



and i apologize for my wall of text, this is actually probably one of the best things i've been able to type as of recent times.



but one last thing. i dont appreciate being told to shut the fuck up for trying to speak my mind on what i've been observing and experiencing first hand. if you donyt have anything nicwe to say dont fucking say it. trust me, i'd do the same.


unless you were actually so full of SHIT that i have to TRY to call you out on it.

Holy shit do i agree with Isra. Im here for social interaction. If i wanted hardcore raiding id go that way... Guess it doesnt matter what i want now, since Kharadin G kicked me lol. I attempted to put together raids with people who were geared for it and wanted it.

Farewell it seems

I think Israfel really put it best. Now it doesn't really matter all THAT much because many of us- myself included- have already LEFT the guild due to random asshattery.

I really, really and honestly feel badly for Eeden. He's the sweetest guy you could possibly know. When he could be around, this sort of silliness was nipped before it could become overbearing. Sadly, he couldn't pick the right people to watch over his guild while he had to be away, and this pile of anger is what will be left when he can finally return (he.. is coming back, right?)

Wanted to join a guild because people were fun to hang around. It's not fun to hang around people who are angry, negative, pushy and arrogant. This WAS a great guild. What happened?

** (Editted to add... Wasn't EGS supposta be.. at the best... a casual raiding guild? Want more hardcore? Instead of pugging them, why not just freaking JOIN Full of Fail and get it over with?)

Whilst i am not part of the guild, most of the guild may know me. I was once in the guild, why i left is what zero is saying. If anyone needs a tank/dps/healer send me a tell... i more or less pug shit with half the guild anyway. And iv corpsedragged one or two of ur ass's througha heroic... dont be afraid to ask... i will gear yall since the guidd seems to be malfuncioning. /target zero /bow

I would like to start this off saying no, my main is not in EGS, but I am still a member with my alts.

First things first, what the hell happened to the EGS I used to know? I mean there was a bit of drama, sure, but it never really got as bad as this. Does Eeden not being here really make people this crazy? I've only heard second hand whats been going on, but seriously people, just because Eeden can't log on doesn't mean you have to turn into a bit of a zoo.

Honestly, if people don't want to run things with other people, then that's fine, and yes EGS is a casual guild, or at least thats my understanding of it, and thats the way EGS has ALWAYS been, ever since I first joined. I actually pulled my main from the guild because of drama, but thats an entirely different story, and for a different day, but its the same type of crap thats going on here. People aggrivating other people, creating drama, and because Eeden isnt here to fix it, its getting out of hand.

Im not trying to be condescending, or trying to stick my nose in where it doesnt belong, but Eeden is my friend, and I dont want to see his guild fall apart because some people cant keep the drama under wraps. As I see it, EGS has been through far worse and survived, but without Eeden here to pull everything back together, things will only get worse unless everyone realizes that its just a game, have fun playing it, and seriously, stop creating this stress for Eeden, I can imagine how irritating and stressful it must be to hear that things are so bad in his own guild and theres not a whole lot he can do about it because of things that are beyond his control at the moment.

on a side note, Ive been talking to Eeden since his net went out, and hes really not happy about whats going on here, if you want EGS to stay together as a guild, I would suggest working things out on your own, because at some point the only solution to all this BS is going to be something I dont think ANY of you are going to like, but at times like this, it will probably be nessecary. if you dont want to see EGS dissapear, do yourselves a favor and quit the crap, all this drama isnt worth a guild breaking down and becoming non-existant.

/end rant

well because of drama and bullshit and me feeling as though i was to blame for most of this crap, i left EGS. i may or may not come back when Eeden comes back. but there look problem solved the guild doesn thave it's fucking drama mongerer around so you can all play nice now

I'm with Keishandi on this one. After reading all the posts in this thread this does not sound like the EGS I know. This sounds very much like Full of Fail. *shudder* For those of you I do know and have not seen in a long time I never imagined EGS taking such a massive curve in the wrong direction. This guild was always casual and never put any pressure on anyone to gear up and get into raids. Eeden has always pretty much given people an option to stay if they wanted the casual aspect of the game or to go to other guilds if we wanted to raid....but as Keish can testify to nobody until now has ever demanded the members save raid IDs or gear up as quickly as possible.


Becareful EGS....don't let yourselves be consumed by loot lust.